ComingSoon Editor-in-Chief Tyler Treese spoke with The Rip director Joe Carnahan about the wild Netflix heist movie. Carnahan spoke about using Matt Damon and Ben Affleck’s star power in the script, having them duke it out in a fight scene, and more. The Rip is now streaming on Netflix.

“Upon discovering millions in cash in a derelict stash house, trust among a team of Miami cops begins to fray. As outside forces learn about the size of the seizure, everything is called into question – including who they can rely on,” says the official synopsis for The Rip.

Tyler Treese: There is a lot of cop speak in The Rip and technical terms being thrown around. I was curious, as a writer, how do you manage having that authenticity while also making sure your average person can follow along with what’s all going on? You thread that line really well, but I could see a less experienced writer not being able to do that.

Joe Carnahan: You know what, Tyler? I think we underrate and undervalue audience understanding and their levels of comprehension. I think that while it’s there and the various acronyms, TNT, VCAT, and so on and so forth… I keep using this example, Chris Nolan made a movie about Oppenheimer and made a billion dollars. That’s a three-hour movie largely with people talking about physical quantum mechanics.

So I believe that, at the same time, a little goes a long way. I don’t think we try to overdo it. As you said, if you felt, which I’m thrilled, bro, you felt that we threaded that needle. But I do think that we don’t give the audience enough credit for figuring these things out. At the very least, having a vague understanding of what’s going on, which is sometimes all you need.

There are so many fun twists in this film, even if you pick up on some stuff, as I did with Matt giving everybody different numbers, there’s still so much other stuff to be blindsided by. I was guessing the entire film. How was it layering that mystery to keep the suspense there the whole way through?

You know, brother, it was Mike McGrale and I spent a lot of time structurally putting the thing together in an outline. I think this is one of those, sometimes I’ll write without an outline, but I think in something like this, it was really necessary to understand the movements, the way the clock would function. I think that once we got that, the blueprint of it, then it became much easier for me just to go off and write the script and it, and so I think we spent, you know, the requisite time that you need.

So you feel like, I didn’t want the audience going, “I saw that coming. I knew that was coming.” You know, I think it really wallops you when it does twist and turn, you’re kind of like, “Wait, wait, I didn’t know that.” You know? So I think that that’s, and it’s just a testament to I think doing the work, you know, putting the hours in, and in terms of that process, which can be, you know, incredibly boring and tedious because it’s like, “Oh God.”

But once you, once it clicks, once you lay the kinda the fundamental of that in place, then it makes for a really great screenplay. It makes for something that is, “Okay, we get it. We got it.”

Tyler Treese: I thought you used Matt Damon in such an interesting way in this film, because he’s such a beloved figure, and audiences have that built-in relationship with him. So you’re seeing him do sketchy stuff, and you’re like, “Well, I can’t trust him,” but he’s also Matt Damon, so you also inherently wanna trust him. I was going back and forth the entire time. How is it kind of using the star profile to the script’s advantage? Because you really needed somebody in that role that people loved.

Joe Carnahan: Yeah. Brother, that’s a great question. I think… I mean, brother, the truth is, Tyler, I traded on that the entire movie, I traded on your understanding. Listen, there are two things. There’s Matt Damon, the movie star, there’s Matt Damon, the actor, right? It’s like, and Matt Damon, the movie star, it’s like, “Well, he would never do this. He’s a good guy.”

But Matt Damon, the actor, he has such great range and capacity and capability. You’re like, “He’s really … is this guy a scumbag?” and I think you are absolutely taking advantage of that. The same way I took advantage of the fact that you got a 40-year friendship between two guys, and you can’t gin [that] up, dude. That, that sense of camaraderie and that sense of brotherhood, it almost has its own gravitational pull when you’re watching those guys.

So that was absolutely something, and you’re right. You need someone like that. Conversely, you need the bad guys not have been bad guys. You know what I mean? It’s like you’re really playing on a lot of different tropes and with those actors. It goes beyond just Matt to Ben, to Steve Yeun, to Kyle Chandler. Like, it’s like you’re really messing with a lot of what would be established, kind of the nomenclature of who those guys are, the roles they played, and so on.

You mentioned that relationship between Matt and Ben that has been there for decades. How much easier is it just when you have a project like this, where you don’t have to worry about the chemistry, you can kind of just pass that over?

Oh, it’s a dream. Yeah, yeah. It doesn’t happen often enough, man. Also you got the two guys that are also this, you know, this running the studio. I mean, these are your bosses, but it’s like that they are both two guys who grew up together as, you know, as kids and became movie stars in their own right. It’s almost, you know, it doesn’t happen.

So that was such a joy to kind of, and also to take that and put them in a genre, which I’m quite comfortable with and love, and they love, and we’re all around the same age. And so we were inspired by the same movie. So we were all kind of… we were all rowing in the same direction. It’s great, dude, ’cause I got the movie I wanted. They got the movie they wanted, Netflix got the movie it wanted. Again, it almost never happens that way, brother. There’s always some form of like, “Well, we didn’t get…” it’s like, no, everybody got exactly what they wanted, and the movie that we all love.

Tyler Treese: You worked with Ben before on Smokin’ Aces, but it’s been 20 years. He hadn’t even directed a film when that had come out. Now that he’s a producer and such an accomplished director himself and more involved with every facet, how was it different in reuniting with him?

Joe Carnahan: You know what, Ben has always been Ben, like, he’s just always been Ben. He and Matt both have that complete lack of pretense and kind of ego. As you mentioned, Ben has become a world-class filmmaker in that time. I think that that’s, but again, in his director career, I think he developed a real affinity for an understanding for like, “Oh, wow, this is what…” because then you have to work with actors as a filmmaker, and it’s like, “Oh, wait a minute.”

So I found him to be incredibly generous and really helpful because he knew what I was… he knows those routes now. He’s walked those miles, and so if anything, it was like, “What do you need, pal? I got you.” You know, like, “What do you need? How many times do you need it? Let’s go.” You know, but he was always like that. He was always game. But I think there was an extra sensitivity now because he sat behind that camera and made these decisions and made great films. So he was really hugely helpful.

I love watching Steven Yeun in anything. He is such a great actor, and he gets a really interesting role here. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him as a cop before in anything. So what made you think of him as a good fit for Detective Mike Ro?

I’ve said this — Steve’s one of the smartest, most thoughtful actors I’ve ever worked with. Ff Steve wants to go into directing, he’ll be a natural at it. His capacity for understanding the kind of finer points of the human condition is unsurpassed. I mean, he’s really sharp.

And we’re both Michigan guys. I mean, I grew up in Michigan. I moved out to Northern California when I was 13 years old. Steve is a Detroit boy. He reminds me of my cousins. He has a very, you know, like Detroit, he has that ego. It’s just like they’re just there, you know? They’re like, “You could survive here, you can make it,” you know what I mean? It’s like literally like he has that great, this kind of gravitas, but it’s egoless, and he only wants what’s best for not his performance, what’s best for the movie. You can’t say that about every actor, but it was a joy working with Steve on this. It really was.

My last question for you. We get to see Matt and Ben get physical in The Rip. It’s like just letting brothers roughhouse. How was filming that confrontation with them?

It was great, dude. They’re the first to say our stuntmen did a great job of beating each other up. But again, they were both so game and so in the moment, and so just delivering. It is just watching two guys just duel. I do very little here; let it happen, and the words were on the page. The premise was there. The understanding was there.

I just thought their capacity for those moments was just boundless and wonderful, and it was a joy to watch. Again, and then for them, I didn’t realize they’d never fought in the movies. I’m like, “Okay, great. We got a first here.”

Thanks to Joe Carnahan for taking the time to talk about The Rip.