In a telephone interview this morning, President Donald Trump issued a not-so-veiled threat against the new Venezuelan leader, Delcy Rodríguez, saying that “if she doesn’t do what’s right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro,” referring to Nicolás Maduro, now residing in a New York City jail cell. Trump made clear that he would not stand for what he described as Rodríguez’s defiant rejection of the armed U.S. intervention that resulted in Maduro’s capture.
During our call, Trump, who had just arrived at his golf club in West Palm Beach, was in evident good spirits, and reaffirmed to me that Venezuela may not be the last country subject to American intervention. “We do need Greenland, absolutely,” he said, describing the island—a part of Denmark, a NATO ally—as “surrounded by Russian and Chinese ships.” And in discussing Venezuela’s future, he signaled a clear shift away from his previous distaste for regime change and nation building, rejecting the concerns of many in his MAGA base. “You know, rebuilding there and regime change, anything you want to call it, is better than what you have right now. Can’t get any worse,” he said.
The severe tone he took with Rodríguez contrasted with the praise he had offered her yesterday, hours after U.S.-military forces attacked Caracas and captured Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, for criminal prosecution. Trump said in a news conference after the attack that Rodríguez had privately indicated a willingness to work with the United States, which Trump declared would temporarily “run” her country.
“She’s essentially willing to do what we think is necessary to make Venezuela great again,” he said yesterday.
Rodríguez rejected that suggestion moments later, declaring that the country is “ready to defend our natural resources” and that the nation’s defense counsel remained prepared to carry out the policies of Maduro, whose return she demanded. “We shall never be a colony ever again,” she said. The prospect of Maduro’s government continuing to resist the U.S. raised the risk of a protracted fight for control of Venezuela that would require increased U.S.-military involvement and even occupation. Trump yesterday signaled his willingness to order a second wave of military actions in Venezuela, should he deem it necessary.
“Rebuilding is not a bad thing in Venezuela’s case,” he said. “The country’s gone to hell. It’s a failed country. It’s a totally failed country. It’s a country that’s a disaster in every way.”
In a speech in December 2016, Trump declared as president-elect that the U.S. will “stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about.” He had campaigned that year in opposition to “nation building,” arguing that the country needs to focus on rebuilding at home instead of in nations such as Iraq and Afghanistan.
When I asked this morning why nation building and regime change in Venezuela would be different from similar efforts he previously opposed in Iraq, Trump suggested posing the question to former President George W. Bush.
“I didn’t do Iraq. That was Bush. You’ll have to ask Bush that question, because we should have never gone into Iraq. That started the Middle East disaster,” Trump said.
Trump has said he believes that the United States needs to maintain control over the Western Hemisphere, invoking his own version of the 19th-century Monroe Doctrine, which rejected European colonialism in the hemisphere. He calls his approach the “Donroe Doctrine.” But in the interview, he said that the decision to kidnap the Venezuelan president was not made simply because of geography.
“It’s not hemisphere. It’s the country. It’s individual countries,” he said in the phone call.
I asked him whether the attack on Venezuela could indicate a willingness to take military action to seize control of Greenland, an autonomous territory within the Kingdom of Denmark, which has rejected American territorial claims. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said yesterday that the world should take notice after the Venezuela operation. “When he tells you that he’s going to do something, when he tells you he’s going to address a problem, he means it,” Rubio said. Trump has repeatedly said that the U.S. “needs” to control Greenland.
Trump said it was up to others to decide what U.S.-military action in Venezuela means for Greenland. “They are going to have to view it themselves. I really don’t know. He was very generous to me, Marco, yesterday,” Trump said. “You know, I wasn’t referring to Greenland at that time. But we do need Greenland, absolutely. We need it for defense.”
