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Liberal MP Michael Ma is facing criticism for downplaying persistent allegations of forced labour in Xinjiang, China, during a committee hearing on Thursday.
Ma is a member of the industry committee, which is currently studying the federal government’s electric vehicle policies.
The federal government recently announced it would accept some Chinese electric vehicles into the country at a lower tariff rate, in an apparent quid-pro-quo deal to get Chinese tariffs lifted off of canola and other items. The deal has faced some criticism, including from Conservatives, who say Canada ought not deepen ties with China.
Ma asked a series of pointed questions to academic witness and former bureaucrat Margaret McCuaig-Johnston. She is a senior fellow at the University of Ottawa who served as a federal assistant deputy minister and holds a master’s degree in international relations focused on China.
At a parliamentary committee on Thursday, Liberal MP Michael Ma asked Margaret McCuaig-Johnston of the China Strategic Risks Institute if she has personally witnessed forced labour in Xinjiang, China. ‘I work closely with Human Rights Watch where researchers did witness it,’ McCuaig-Johnston said.
Ma asked her a series of rapid-fire yes or no questions that appeared to seek to undermine her expertise as well as allegations of human rights violations against China.
He asked her if she holds an advanced degree in cybersecurity — she does not — whether an institute she’s affiliated with looks for risks in China where there are none, and finally, whether she personally has witnessed forced labour in Xinjiang.
“Have you witnessed this yourself?” he asked. “Have you been there, ever?”
“I’ve been to China many times since 1979,” said McCuaig-Johnston.
“Just a short answer. Have you witnessed forced labour in Xinjiang? Yes or no,” said Ma. “Did you get it from hearsay?”
She responded by saying she works closely with Human Rights Watch where researchers did witness it.
In 2021, Canada’s Parliament declared China’s treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang, including forced labour, as “genocide” in a motion that passed with the support of all opposition parties and some members of the Liberal Party.
Similar statements were passed by the U.K., United States and Netherlands governments.
Canada has imposed sanctions over China’s human rights abuses.
As recently as this year, United Nations experts have expressed “deep concern regarding persistent allegations of forced labour” affecting minority groups, including Uyghurs, in Xinjiang.
“I think the Liberal government needs to clarify its position,” Conservative foreign affairs critic Michael Chong said after Ma’s comments.
At a parliamentary committee on Thursday, Liberal MP Michael Ma asked a committee expert from the China Strategic Risks Institute if she had personally witnessed forced labour in Xinjiang, China. ‘I don’t think there is any question as to whether or not this has taken place,’ Conservative MP Michael Chong said.
“Does it still assess that Uyghur forced labour has taken place? Will it raise those issues proactively with their [People’s Republic of China] counterparts? And finally, will the sanctions against the four individuals and one entity remain in place? And I think the Prime Minister’s Office needs to clarify all three things.”
“Either he is deliberately uninformed, or he is deliberately blind to the reality. What is happening right now to the Uyghurs in terms of human rights violations and forced labour has been established,” said NDP national security critic Jenny Kwan.
CBC News has reached out to the Prime Minister’s Office for comment.
NDP MP Jenny Kwan reacted to a line of questioning by Liberal MP Michael Ma at a parliamentary committee, where he asked an expert from the China Strategic Risks Institute if she had herself witnessed forced labour in Xinjiang, China. ‘Either he is deliberately uninformed or he is deliberately blind to the reality,’ Kwan said.
On his way out of the House of Commons, Ma was asked by CBC News whether he believes there is forced labour in China.
“I believe there is forced labour around the world,” he said, refusing to say it happens in China specifically.
Ma declined further comment. The Markham-Unionville MP made headlines late last year, when he left the Conservative caucus to join the governing Liberals.
In a statement, his office said he was using a “common CPC tactic” of asking short yes or no questions to a witness “in order to control the flow of the dialogue.”
Ma “used a quick burst of [yes or no] questions to move away from the anti-China EV witness and then give the floor to the pro-China EV witness. That was the strategy on paper,” according to an email sent to CBC News from his office.
‘A stupid question’
In an interview with CBC News after the committee hearing, McCuaig-Johnston said she understood in the moment that Ma was executing a tactic.
“It was a stupid question on his part, frankly,” she said. “I think he was overall trying to undermine what I might say on forced labour, which is too bad to see, because the government itself has brought in very strong legislation on forced labour.”
She said after the committee hearing, she offered Ma a copy of the Human Rights Watch report. She said he responded by saying he doesn’t believe in reports.
